[Product Beta Recruitment] Typography

Some of the new typography changes are nice. I focus on the suggestions though. As a typography geek and multilingual typesetter with over 15 y of experience I can tell that:
a) Adding paragraph spacing by default is a huge mistake for typography and limits the posibilities to create different styling. Paragraph spacing is added on specific styles (create more styles if you want) but not to all styles.
b) Fonts should be smaller! Guys please! Get your heads out of the retina screens and see how it looks like on 34" screen, 15.6" Win laptop. Remember, the most important is that the users of the docs are happy; not the creators!
c) H1, H2, H3… is just not good enough. You can’t limit the sizing that much and think that you’ve allowed formatting. That’s simply not correct. What you’ve done is limited the sizing and the layout options.

2/5 from me for these updates because you basically didn’t solve much of general issues.

3 Likes

@Stefan_Stoyanov Sorry, but I can’t agree with any of your points. What has just been “typographically” improved here is actually the usual standard for comparable applications, no more and no less. What I’m still missing, as I mentioned before, is the possibility to set a line break within a paragraph. But that’s all I can complain about. Why you find literally all changes (a to c) bad is beyond my comprehension.

Which is not to say that I wouldn’t like to see more responsiveness regarding different screen widths, but that’s another story. For now, I’m happy with the current improvements.

2 Likes

Improvement is improvement. But whether this is a level up? I am not convinced. I don’t like the font characters, the kerning (lack of it).

I would have to disagree because it’s not the usual standard to some comparable applications. Comparable applications have custom font size, line height and paragraph spacing like in wordprocessing and publishing apps.

1 Like

I’d be interested to know what applications you have in mind. Perhaps you mean ClickUp, which does indeed offer a lot of customization options (font size, line height, paragraph spacing). But otherwise I can’t think of any application. Notion doesn’t have that and I don’t know any note app that would offer such options.

1 Like

Font weight for page title is now 800 which is too much in my opinion. I think it would look better if font weight was set to 700.

2 Likes

Overall I think most of the changes are great and the spacing is a lot more “automatic” and pleasing!

However as far as I can tell this update was pushed out without the option to create a new line without the extra spacing which in my opition is a huge oversight!

As others mentioned, the spacing I created before with the double line breaks have been converted to just a single line break but with this new spacing which is great. But all the single line breaks I had with no spacing have also been converted to this new single line break with extra spacing so now everything looks the same and therefore a lot of spacing data has been lost!
Would it not have been better to wait until the line break within paragraph with no spacing is also a possibility and then convert my single line breaks into that so everything stays the same? Now I’m going to have to go through all of my docs to reformat once this option arrives, assuming (and hoping!) it does.

Also, a lot of my functions now create rows of data that are difficult to read and waste space because this spacing behaviour is also present in Text columns. For example addresses that should look like this:

221B Baker Street
London
NW1 6XE

Now look like this:

221B Baker Street

London

NW1 6XE

It’s quite unpleasing! I think text columns should behave the way they were before as they are different to how the main part of a doc feels, or if not we need a new LineBreakWithoutSpacing() function.

I can’t help but feel like this should’ve been tested out as Beta like originally planned rather than pushing it out to every doc and suddenly change they way things look.
Or do others not mind, am I the only one annoyed at this?

10 Likes

Nope, not the only one :pensive:

I really don’t mind the auto-creation of new paragraphs when hitting ⏎ Enter (while typing on the canvas) but the real problem for me is that it’s not escapable … I.e.: ⇧ Shift + ⏎ Enter gives the exact same result as a simple ⏎ Enter :pensive:

2 Likes

hi @Daniel_Meszoly , I am with you!
I observed the same line break issues, but did initially not related it to the update since I know nothing about typography and without your comments I would have looked in my code to see what I did wrong…

I do not see yet how I can solve many of the issues I observe in documents I prepared for printing (trying to work around the many limitations Coda has in this area).

Maybe this is a wake up call that print & pdf generation do matter to many SMB

cheers, Christiaan

2 Likes

Hard to believe actually, but they have forgotten to implement the line break, it simply does not exist. Every line break was automatically converted to a paragraph.

1 Like

hi @Michael_Singer , well if this is the case, I guess they can solve the issue early next week. It would solve many many issues in my ready for print (which are now not anymore that ready…) docs.
Cheers, Christiaan

2 Likes

just want to +100 this comment- i couldn’t put my finger on what had changed making my docs look all wonky but this is it! overall big fan of the typography cleanup but spaces after paragraphs by default throws off most of my commonly used docs… makes it really hard to make app-like docs in general. even if this remains the default, can we at least have the ability to control line spacing?

3 Likes

Same here, hopefully it is fixed soon :confused:

2 Likes

Just adding a +1 to this. I have several use cases for which a single line break option is quite important (writing talks, arranging song lyrics, brainstorming, etc.)

2 Likes

No line breaks!?!? At all?

1 Like

Can someone from Coda comment on the plan for this? I’m surprised by these sort of breaking changes. We have contract exporters and several other key documents that have wonky formatting now. Thank you!

5 Likes

I agree completely with all these comments. I have several documents that are messed up now because of the spacing. One document has a template with some text that I use to copy and paste into an email. Now the paragraphs have big gaps between them because of the line breaks. If I remove the extra line breaks (now paragraphs), it looks better in Coda, but when I copy and paste the text back into an email the paragraph spacing is gone. It is now just one giant paragraph.

So please either undo this automatic paragraph spacing or give us the option to do line breaks or give us more spacing options.

2 Likes

sorry

THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR MY CLIENTS

suddenly there are huge gaps between lines whenever a newline occurs.

it has totally DESTROYED the carefully crafted layouts of pages in a horrible way.

this is one change that needs to be ROLLED BACK.

a single linebreak should not cause a paragraph gap.
two linebreaks in a row has been used to generate this effect quite well.

PLEASE undo this change, it is causing people to leave Coda and return to Notion.

i am having to resort to injecting css style changes via chrome extensions as an emergency measure.

sorry guys, but it is a serious problem

max

5 Likes

Hi everyone, thank you for all for the feedback about the new typography. We are excited to make an update that will allow you to choose between line break sizes:

In a cell:

  • Enter → submit (unchanged)
  • Shift + Enter → hard line break (unchanged)
  • Option (Mac) or Alt (PC) + Enter → soft line break (new behavior)

On the canvas:

  • Enter → hard line break (unchanged)
  • Shift + Enter → soft line break (new behavior)

Now, you can use these to create the desired spacing in your beautiful docs. Thank you again for the feedback and for being a Maker!

12 Likes

Thanks for that update! Line breaks are really important.

Out of interest I just tested if you can now create line breaks also for headings. The answer is - yes, but only with a little trick. Maybe this can be smoothed out in the future.

If you have just created a heading and the cursor is at the end of the heading, pressing Shift + Enter will not create a line break (thus a new line) for the heading.

However, if you place the cursor at the beginning of the heading and then press the Shift + Enter key shortcut, you will create a second line above the heading where you can insert text.

Now you have two lines for a heading, which you can edit as you like and even create more lines if you wish (now in the usual way).

Generally speaking: If you do not place the cursor at the end, but at any other place of the heading, then the line break with Shift + Enter works.

3 Likes